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What is it?

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Author	Topic: What is it?
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-14-2016 06:47 PM [26-2586] I bought these yesterday as a curiosity. Has anyone an idea of what these are used for? I have to confess I have no clue. They are made by Joseph Jennens & Co, Birmingham 1907. They are 1 3/4" in length and each weigh 7 grams. The design appears to be a rose(?)and also stamped, "Prov Pat 20832, J&Co (hallmarks for Birmingham 1907)". Somebody suggested corn cob holders but I don't think so, they aren't sturdy enough for that. Any thoughts? IP: Logged
vathek Posts: 966 Registered: Jun 99	posted 08-15-2016 06:40 AM corn cob holders or for hors d'oeuvres. IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-15-2016 09:22 AM Vathek, the hors d'oeuvres option is a possibility. My first reaction is they don't appear durable enough to be used with corn on the cob. IP: Logged
Roger Nevling Posts: 58 Registered: Oct 2005	posted 08-15-2016 10:52 AM They are not long enough for hors d'oeuvres. Sets I have seen come in sets of 6 and are all over 3 inches long. And corn holders generally have 2 prongs so the ear doesn't spin, although I wouldn't give up on that idea completely. Hmmmmmm ? IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 08-15-2016 12:16 PM Hester Clarke Fine Jewellers began as Wilson & Gill have you asked them? IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1971 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 08-15-2016 02:16 PM The children of the elite could use them to pop balloons. IP: Logged
asheland Posts: 935 Registered: Nov 2003	posted 08-15-2016 02:54 PM I like them! IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-15-2016 07:17 PM Scott, thanks for the heads up. I haven't contacted Hester Clarke Fine Jewellers but I'll see if they respond to an email with pictures. Might there be a patent office in the UK that would have a record of the number? Balloon popping would be fun but make sure their full of water, that's a requirement on the West Coast today. IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-16-2016 09:17 AM I've been in contact with Christopher Clarke, chairman of Hester Clarke Fine Jewellers. He appeared eager to solve the mystery and indicated he would search their archives for any information. Fingers crossed... IP: Logged
Roger Nevling Posts: 58 Registered: Oct 2005	posted 08-16-2016 02:05 PM I tried to check the patent number, they do have a nice on-line checker, but to no avail as I believe the patent # to be too old. IP: Logged
wev Moderator Posts: 4132 Registered: Apr 99	posted 08-16-2016 09:49 PM Patent 20832 was granted for 'Food from yeast, Cattle or like' on Sept. 19, 1906 to J. Schmidt Burton-on-Trent. Provisional patents are not listed on line that I can find. IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-17-2016 12:52 AM Interesting Wev. I checked the number again and I believe it to be as stated. Just wondering why the prov patent noted wouldn't have become an actual patent under the same number. IP: Logged
ahwt Posts: 2377 Registered: Mar 2003	posted 08-17-2016 05:49 PM In the US provisional patent applications are not published, but I do not know what the UK system was like in 1907. Since it was a provisional application it could be that the invention never matured into a patent. Joseph Jennens & Co appears to have been a very successful company that manufactured buttons and other small items. They might be useful in holding watercress sandwiches together. IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-17-2016 10:04 PM I received a reply today from Christopher Clarke, He indicated their old catalogues from around 1907 did show similar skewers but only in silver plate and only going down to 4". He believed them to be mini skewers which were for table use when serving small game birds. He couldn't find any commemorative date around 1907 that could have used the Tudor Rose hilt motif. He further stated that the original makers in Birmingham were noted for supplying militaria of all kinds to regimental messes, so it could have been produced as a generic item for them. These then might have been supplied via Wilson & Gill to either individual officers , or the mess itself in quantity. Since they are a boxed set of 4, they may well have be purchased for private personal use. Interesting information and most kind of him to volunteer his time and knowledge. IP: Logged
Polly Posts: 1971 Registered: Nov 2004	posted 08-18-2016 03:58 PM Interesting! Thank you for the update. I'll admit that skewering small game birds makes more sense than balloon popping. IP: Logged
agphile Posts: 798 Registered: Apr 2008	posted 08-18-2016 05:10 PM Interesting indeed, and nice to find an old family firm that has kept at least some of its old records and takes an interest. However, I am not fully convinced by the game skewer suggestion. Partly because of the size and partly because of the provisional patent which suggests some novel function had been thought of. You couldn't patent a simple skewer and in England the route to protecting a particular design of some such normal object was the registered design. I find myself wondering about something like a lemon or orange squeezer. You pierce a half lemon or a thick slice. It can then be picked up by the ring though it still has to be squeezed by the fingers. I believe there was a German patent around this time for something similar but with a couple of springy flaps to use for the squeezing. Or possibly in this case you used a pair of the little skewers to squeeze with. It would explain the purpose of the tudor rose disc at the top. If by any strange chance my suggestion proves to be right, I am not surprised that this invention didn't catch on - and it may not have been considered enough of an invention to justify the ultimate award of a patent. Just a thought. Whatever the truth, it is an attractive little set. IP: Logged
trefid2 Posts: 74 Registered: Jul 2015	posted 08-19-2016 12:54 AM I agree Agphile, the mystery isn't necessarily solved. Regardless of their intended purpose, I'll have a few uses for them at the dinner table. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-16-2017 10:26 AM I have been thinking how I might use these "mini" skewers today. At dinner, if I was putting on the table a serving plate of individually sized skewered cheese wedges/blocks then these would provide a nice decorative way to select (by hand) the cheese. IP: Logged
June Martin Forum Master Posts: 1343 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-18-2017 11:27 AM These little beauties look to me like they are cheese ball holders which would be in line with the patent description relating them to use with dairy. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 03-18-2017 11:51 AM June, Are you thinking cheese knob? If yes, the skewer might be a little longer than required but I suppose it might work. see: A Whatzit IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 01-21-2018 02:28 PM quote: Originally posted by Janet1 in new members forum: Re a whatzit from trefid2 on Aug 2016. Jennens skewers. From British Irish forum. These are for military belt buckles. They are called cross belt pricker plate fittings. IP: Logged
Scott Martin Forum Master Posts: 11573 Registered: Apr 93	posted 09-03-2019 11:16 PM quote: Originally posted by trefid2: This is a reply to the post What is it?" which was originally posted Aug. 14/16 in the English/Irish sterling section. I've recently come across a boxed set of 6 of the exact items on a UK website. Three appear to be hallmarked for 1907 and stamped "Prov Pat 20832" and three are hallmarked for 1908 and stamped "Pat No 20832 - 1907". It would appear a patent was indeed granted for this item. Interesting that Wev indicated that "Patent 20832 was granted for 'Food from yeast, Cattle or like' on Sept. 19, 1906 to J. Schmidt Burton-on-Trent". The dealer has called them "sweetcorn holders", I've emailed him to see if this description is based on patent information or on personal opinion. A bit of a head scratcher. [This message has been edited by Scott Martin (edited 09-03-2019).] IP: Logged

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