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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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In this Forum we discuss the silver of the United Kingdom, as well as British Colonial silver and Old Sheffield Plate. Past British - Irish Sterling topics/threads worth a look. |
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 SMP Silver Salon Forums
 British / Irish Sterling
 Benjamin Mountigue
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| Author | Topic: Benjamin Mountigue |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 11-25-2017 08:24 AM
  
Benjamin Mountigue’s,also known as Benjamin Mordecai, mark is on this nice ladle. The marks are for London December 1,1784 until 1785 although the “I” date mark is not quite that shown in Jackson. I needed another ladle like a hole in the head, but this simple graceful design is always a favorite of mine and the price was right. Does anyone know the animal on the engraving? IP: Logged |
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PhilO Posts: 166 |
posted 11-25-2017 12:37 PM
The armorial is the Lamb and Flag, the badge of, among others, the Knights Hospitallers of St John. It has also been used as a family armorial so a look through Fairbairn's Crests might give a few potential owners' names. Phil IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 11-25-2017 03:24 PM
Thank you, PhilO. I thought it might be a lamb or sheep. I could see this being used by someone in the woolen industry. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 11-25-2017 08:00 PM
Beautiful sharp marks. IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 11-26-2017 05:21 AM
I am probably now stating the obvious but, in case it helps, the origin of the lamb crest is as a religious symbol: the Paschal Lamb or the Lamb of God. My copy of Fairbairn lists 22 families that use the crest so that would not really help you narrow the history of the ladle without some provenance. If you try to google the crest you may experience the irritation that I suffer because search engines and the sources they search do not seem to understand that crest has a specific meaning and is not the same as a coat of arms. A very nice ladle, by the way. I think Old English is the ideal pattern for ladles and sometimes wonder why on earth I bother to collect examples of the more fanciful patterns. IP: Logged |
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vathek Posts: 966 |
posted 11-26-2017 07:02 AM
Given that the lamb seems to have a halo, might this have belonged to a cleric? IP: Logged |
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agphile Posts: 798 |
posted 11-26-2017 08:53 AM
The halo is because it is the Paschal Lamb but does not point to a specifically clerical use. It has even been used as the badge of a regiment in the British army - the Queen's Royal Regiment - probably in honour of Queen Catherine whose crest it was rather than as evidence that God was always on our side. It tends to be linked with St John so is often taken as the crest or badge of organisations dedicated to St John or families that have at some point in the past had him as their patron saint. [This message has been edited by agphile (edited 11-26-2017).] IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 11-26-2017 12:04 PM
The use of a lamb or sheep in the past was a favorite in many areas. Sheep are just about everywhere in Staffordshire figures. My wife collects Staffordshire figures and besides dogs I think sheep are the second most represented. Brooks Brothers uses a lamb suspended in a ribbon and that symbol goes back to Philip the Good, a 15th century Duke whose knights were notably named–The Order of the Golden Fleece. Apparently Philip made a fortune with his sheep. IP: Logged |
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agleopar Posts: 850 |
posted 11-26-2017 01:16 PM
Lovely ladle! The Kings head mark is the intaglio version used from Dec.1, 1784- May 1786 it was to show that the new duty was paid, as said but was changed to cameo when they made the punch that was used in the fly press that had all the marks. It in itself has a bit of rarity, which I love, also because of the timing. It is not proved but the king needed money after that disastrous little debacle in the colonies.... IP: Logged |
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ahwt Posts: 2377 |
posted 11-26-2017 09:17 PM
Agleopar thank you for the information about the marking of silver with the intaglio design. I did not realize that the duty mark changed as you described. Intaglio has always been a great word and I note that its usage peaked in the books that Google looks at in 1874. IP: Logged |
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Polly Posts: 1971 |
posted 11-27-2017 09:22 AM
I so enjoy being part of a community whose members look up the word /intaglio/ on google ngram. IP: Logged |
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asheland Posts: 935 |
posted 11-27-2017 01:28 PM
Lovely ladle! I also have a soft spot for nice Old English Pattern pieces whatever they are. And the crest makes the piece in my opinion! IP: Logged |
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